Episode summary

Counselors Jessie Evans and Tiff Holdgate sit down with therapist and author Dr. Andrew J. Bauman to talk about his book Safe Church and the hard, hopeful work of making churches safer for women and survivors. Andrew shares parts of his story, what his research with ~2,800 women working in churches reveals about sexism and abuse, where bad theology does real harm, and practical steps any community can take right now: start honest conversations, use trusted resources, increase diversity in leadership, implement clear policies, and require real accountability. If you’ve ever wondered how to love the Church while telling the truth about its wounds—this one’s for you.

Guest

Dr. Andrew J. Bauman — therapist, author, and co-founder of the Christian Counseling Center for Sexual Health & Trauma. He writes and teaches on trauma recovery, sexuality, and faith, advocating for survivor-centered, theologically sound church cultures.
Web: christiancc.org • andrewjbauman.com

Key takeaways

• Story work is the doorway to liberation. Naming your story (and grief) transforms shame and breaks compulsive cycles.
• Humility > hierarchy. Unchecked, CEO-style church models concentrate power and increase risk; healthy churches build transparent checks and balances.
• Bad theology bears bad fruit. Misread “clobber texts” (e.g., 1 Tim 2; 1 Cor 14) have been used to silence women; responsible exegesis restores mutuality and the full Imago Dei.
• Sexism is normalized—often as “jokes.” “Just kidding” humor releases prejudice and raises tolerance for discrimination.
• Marriage doesn’t heal abuse. Prioritize people made in God’s image over preserving appearances; betrayal breaks covenant.
• Trust your body and your gut. Survivors—especially women—have been gaslit away from intuition; embodied wisdom matters.
• Practical safeguards matter. Annual abuse-prevention training, background checks, clear reporting pathways, open forums, and diverse leadership all reduce harm.

Research highlights discussed (from Andrew’s Safe Church work)

• ~2,800 women working in churches participated.
• 82% said sexism plays a role in their church experience.
• 62% wouldn’t be surprised to hear a sexist joke at church.
• 35.1% reported sexual harassment/misconduct or “it’s complicated.”
• 77.9% felt ministry opportunities were limited due to gender.
• Context: ~87% of churches are male-led.

Scripture + word studies mentioned

• Acts 2:18; Galatians 3:28; Luke 7; John 20; Matthew 15:21; Judges 5; Exodus 15; Romans 16; John 4 (women leading, proclaiming, financing, and being entrusted with the Resurrection).
• Genesis 2 — “ezer kenegdo”: “ezer” = help/rescue/strength (often used of God); “kenegdo” = corresponding to, face-to-face—mutuality, not subordination.
• Re-reading 1 Tim 2 and 1 Cor 14 with attention to Greek (e.g., hēsychia “stillness/peacefulness,” not permanent silence; prohibitions against misuse of authority).

Practical steps to build a safer church

1. Name it publicly. Teach on domestic abuse, sexual abuse, and power; host open Q&A forums.
2. Adopt survivor-centered policies. Clear reporting lines, published processes, third-party hotlines, mandated reporting refreshers.
3. Do the training. Annual abuse-prevention and bystander intervention for staff, elders, volunteers, and small-group leaders.
4. Background checks for anyone serving with minors, vulnerable adults, or in pastoral care.
5. Increase diversity in leadership. Women and people of color on elder/deacon boards, hiring committees, and teaching teams.
6. Boundaries & scope. Written pastoral care guidelines (confidentiality, dual-relationship limits, referral pathways, room/door policies).
7. Seminary & staff requirements. Require real counseling coursework, supervised practice, and ongoing personal therapy.
8. External accountability. Engage denominational/independent review boards; publish annual safety reports.
9. Resource your people. Curate and teach from trustworthy books, podcasts, and curricula (see below).
10. Tell the truth & repent. Confession, lament, and transparent repair are marks of health—not threats to it.

Resources mentioned

• Book: Safe Church — Andrew J. Bauman (released January 21; See below)
• Christian Counseling Center for Sexual Health & Trauma: christiancc.org
• Andrew’s writing: andrewjbauman.com (recent post: “I want to be like Jesus, but I don’t want to be abused”)

Book details & where to buy

• Title: Safe Church: How to Guard Against Sexism and Abuse in Christian Communities
  Author: Andrew J. Bauman • Publisher: Baker Books • Pub date: January 21, 2025 • ISBN: 978-1540903976. Baker Publishing Group
• Order from the publisher (Baker Publishing Group). Baker Publishing Group
• Baker Book House (often discounted). Baker Book House
• Bookshop.org (supports independent bookstores). Bookshop
• Barnes & Noble. Barnes & Noble
• Amazon. Amazon

Conversation guide (for small groups or staff)

• Where have “jokes” minimized harm in our community? What will we do differently next time?
• Which policies do we currently have in writing? Which are missing or invisible to congregants?
• Where do women and marginalized people show up in our leadership pipeline and teaching calendar?
• What concrete steps will we take in the next 90 days (training, policy publication, diversity in decision-making)?